Friday, March 25, 2005
Apparently, On Sequenza21 You Can Have It Both Ways
With regard to Corey and Judith’s recent exchange: it’s wonderful to have a forum in which the same situation can be viewed so differently. I agree 100% with Corey’s assessment, especially the last two paragraphs, and especially the comment that “These composers are hardly ever embraced by panels, foundations, musical institutions, or academic institutions, not to mention the Pulitzer people.” If I’m not mistaken (and someone correct me if I’m wrong), one of the reasons a composer “goes downtown” -- physically or metaphorically -- is because s/he is rejecting -- artistically, philosophically and/or socially -- the perceived ossification of the uptown scene. Isn’t that true?
Corey’s conclusion, that Downtowners need a strong sense of community in order to offset their alienation from uptown institutions, is right on target, and makes much more sense than complaints that Uptown ensembles don’t play enough (or any, depending on who you talk to) Downtown music. After all, there are practical problems in playing much Downtown music that Downtown composers have solved in their own ways, problems that make it very difficult to perform both Uptown and Downtown music well under a single umbrella. Corey speaks of “alternative production values,” a locution I haven’t heard before, and one that I think sums up one of the issues very well: if an Uptown ensemble performs Downtown music with Uptown production values, what is the result?
I suppose an answer could be found in the last twenty years of Philip Glass.
In any case, Downtowners need to create their own support base, as Corey says. Kyle Gann has done amazing work to get this started, even though he has at times expressed a sense of hopelessness in his mission. For my part, I think he has had and continues to have much more of an impact than he realizes. And I’ve told him so. As far as I can tell, one of his main complaints is that non-Downtowners are sometimes labeled Downtown when they are only Downtown-influenced.
At the same time, I agree with Judith 100% -- there is no need for her, in her creative life, to make a distinction between Downtown and Uptown. She has developed a personal voice from her own balance of internal and external influences. That doesn’t make her anyone’s enemy. Any rift there may be between compositional camps is not really her responsibility or concern.
Does anyone else see a surprising cosmic shift in all of this? A generation ago, Uptown was all about ideology, and Downtown was all about Anything Goes. Now Corey is laying out a Downtown ideology, and Judith is calling these distinctions a “non-issue” -- Anything Goes.
(And my apologies, Judith, but I said I wouldn’t comment on the importance of 12-tone music, not the Uptown/Downtown issue.)
posted by Lawrence Dillon
8:01 PM
morton feldman writings
I became interested in Feldman's music early in 2004, having only heard a performance of Vertical Thoughts 4 while a student at the U of Chicago in the 80's. I used to look at a lot of his scores in the library there, but no more than I did anyone else's. Feldman's music really made an impression on me starting last year, and I've managed to cram about 3 GB of it all on my iPod, with most of his late music particularly well-represented (the really long pieces).
To be honest, I haven't felt this strongly about anyone's music since I got involved in minimalism in the late 70's, which had a major impact on my own music. Part of why I think I respond so much to Feldman's music is that there is an appreciation for sound, sparse textures, contemplation and also repetition (particularly in the later pieces). Some of his music is incredibly beautiful, but admittedly is an acquired taste (my wife derisively refers to it as "whale music" after I had For Christian Wolff playing in our kitchen one day).
Feldman was a very smart man, and wrote a lot about music. I recently obtained a copy of his collection of writings Give My Regards to Eighth Street for all of $7 on eBay and plowed through it pretty quickly. There is a great section where Feldman encounters several major conductors, all of whom praise his music, yet all of them will never perform Feldman's music themselves.
What is also very interesting is his opinions on academic music. He had some scorn for Boulez and Babbitt, and seemed to feel a bit left out by many mainstream musical organizations. His opinions are similar to mine, and in one essay I think he pretty much sums up my distaste for academic music and institutions in general:
"Art is a crucial, dangerous operation we perform on ourselves. Unless we take a chance, we die in art. It becomes increasingly obvious that to these fellows [academic composers who teach], music is not an art. It is a process of teaching teachers to teach teachers. In this process it is only natural that the music of the teacher will be no different from that of the teacher he's teaching. Academic freedom seems to be the comfort of knowing one is free to be academic."...
"Have you ever looked into the eyes of a survivor from the composition department of Princeton or Yale? He is on his way to tenure, but he's a drop-out in art. All the same, he continues...He writes a piece occasionally. It is played occasionally. There is always the possibility of a performance on the Gunther Schuller series. His pieces are well made., He is not without talent. The reviews aren't bad. A few awards–a Guggenheim,. and Arts and Letters, a Fulbright–this is the official musical life of America."
I think Feldman says it better than I could. It's a great collection of writings, and even if you dislike Feldman's music, is worth reading for his insight into composition, notation and painting. And then there are his comments about rugs in Crippled Symmetry...
posted by David Toub
1:33 PM
You Can't Have It All
Friends or Enemies? 
Zaimont’s piece won this competition in 1990, fifteen years ago. Friends and Enemies of New Music is certainly a worthy ensemble, but their performance history hardly bends toward downtown music. Here's a list of performed composers from their ensemble bio: Alla Borzova, Artur Kampela, Elliott Carter, David Del Tredici, Charles Dodge, Leon Kirchner, Thea Musgrave, Shulamit Ran, and Ned Rorem. Daniel Bernard Roumain is on the list as well, and he's the only one who might even remotely be considered downtown, but that's a whole other discussion...
Zaimont's anecdote is exemplary of what true members of the downtown music community are so tired of: People from outside the community trying to impose their outsider definition onto the community. For me, these discussions are not about whether one style is better or worse than the other, but rather more about appropriation. Just because someone is influenced by downtown music doesn’t automatically make them a “downtown” composer. Zaimont is a great composer, but I seriously doubt that her music’s proposed uptown/downtown duality would be confirmed by a “panel” of genuine downtown composers/performers. I think it should go without saying that panels and composer competitions are pretty foreign to the downtown music scene, and I would be curious to know who was on the so-called downtown judging panel.
Certainly, in the 70s the downtown scene was extremely and uniformly different from the uptown scene, and the distinctions were much easier to make. Presently, the influence of early downtown music can sometimes be heard in uptown circles. That may be what tends to make the distinctions undesirable or irrelevant for some people.
However, there are still composers who, without incorporating uptown ideals, espouse and evolve a hardcore downtown musical aesthetic -- amplified instruments and vocals, ambient music, extreme repitition, genuine experimentation, disinterest in western ideas about classical form/drama, writing in a genuinely pop-influenced style rather than making concert music that “refers” to popular music, etc. -- and who operate with a downtown philosophy -- alternative production values and audience-building techniques, idiosyncratic performance-practice, venues, and other extra-musical qualities.
These composers are hardly ever embraced by panels, foundations, musical institutions, or academic institutions, not to mention the Pulitzer people… It is, therefore, important for them to have an identity and community where they can find support. This is a big reason why, for me, the downtown/uptown distinction is (still) important and legitimate.
posted by Corey Dargel
12:06 PM
Up/Down/Aroundtown
For me this is a non-issue. Following is one anecdote, and a final observation on the subject.
Anecdote: In 1990 I entered a piece in the Friends and Enemies of New Music composer competition ( a trio, DANCE/INNER DANCE). When I got the call to say it had won, I was also told wryly that my piece posed a problem for the competition administrators:
Two judging panels had been set up, one for Uptown composers, the other for Downtown folks -- and it was assumed that each would pick a piece according to preferred stylistic orientation, and that two winning works would duke it out at the concert.
But both sets of judges picked my trio -- so no resultant 'wrestling match'.
Observation:
What counts in music ultimately is the 'stuff' of it, not how it's said. Excellence in content, shapely realization, and fitting its chosen time-frame well are paramount. The style/manner has to gibe with the intent -- but it's the CONtent that counts.
Like Lawrence Dillon, I'll now say no more on this subject.
posted by Judith Lang Zaimont
10:29 AM
Church Music
Since this is Good Friday and music and religion have a long and distinguished common history, I thought a good topic might be music that has a religious basis. The church and synagogue have long been a source of inspiration for both composers and painters and many of the most respected modern composers--Messiaen, Part, Tavener, for example--write almost exclusively music inspired by their personal faith. Have any of our worthy composers ever written religious pieces? What are some of your favorite pieces?
(You don't have to be religious to play. I believe Verdi wrote his Requiem for a fee and for a man he didn't even know.)
posted by Jerry Bowles
9:38 AM
Wednesday, March 23, 2005
Performance Horror Story
This, from tomorrow's edition of Scotland's The Herald: It was to be one of the most memorable nights in the career of James Dillon: a long-awaited return to his hometown to hear his compositions performed by Scotland's national orchestra.
He cannot forget the evening, but for all the wrong reasons...Last night he spoke of his sadness at the RSNO performance, which he believes was well below par. Members of the audience saw one leading player yawn pointedly before the piece began, and other musicians stare at the score as if it was impossible to understand.
Mr Dillon said: "I don't know quite how to describe it, it was certainly a sobering experience. The whole feeling was that they weren't interested."
posted by Jerry Bowles
10:36 PM
Performance and Performers
This versus That
To me, the distinction between “uptown” and “downtown” has a lot to do with the performers who have championed the music. Philip Glass, La Monte Young, Meredith Monk, Steve Reich, Yoko Ono, Tony Conrad, Laurie Anderson, etc., all had their own ensembles and/or performed their own music. Downtown performers play much differently than the typical conservatory trainee. Many downtown performers are also downtown composers (and vice versa).
Sadly, conservatories and schools of music (still) train their student performers to play in orchestras and perform traditional repertoire. Imagine how it might affect the world of new music (and traditional concert music as well) if instructors started exposing their student performers to an all-inclusive variety of styles and interpretive possibilities. If performers were taught to think more creatively (that is to say, to be more “creation-oriented” than “replication-oriented”), they might be excited and challenged by music that asks them to perform outside their comfort zone.
Imagine if every performer was required to compose an original piece of music and perform it on his/her Senior Recital in order to graduate. If performers were reminded of their own creativity and their capacity to freshly and freely interpret both new *and* old music, we might be able to stop worrying about the so-called “death of classical music.”
As it is now, many classically-trained performers are dismissive or hostile toward “downtown” music and its offspring because they’re taught (explicitly or implicitly) to be skeptical of what they’re not familiar with. Most orchestras and traditional ensembles will not touch a piece by Reich, Glass, Nyman, Cage (only the early works), Oliveros, etc., unless they’re sure it’s safe (“The NY Philharmonic will be happy to perform a work by Mr. Reich, as long as it’s an arrangement of a *pre-existing* piece…”)
Any thoughts?
posted by Corey Dargel
6:00 PM
re: evil empire
(comments were not showing up for some reason, hence this post in response)
And here I was really trying to get away from this subject...
To be honest, I've never heard this regarding sexual orientation and compositional technique. Pretty silly, if you ask me. Besides, both Copland, Bernstein and possibly Tippett also wrote some 12-tone music eventually. Not their best output, mind you, but they did it. I'm probably the only person out there who likes Connotations, however.
Why compare Schoenberg with Cowell? I don't make any distinction between them. Both wrote music I genuinely love. One of the most memorable concerts I attended as a kid was the premiere of Cowell's Quartet Romantic at (I think) Alice Tully Hall. The performers had to listen through a click track to play the complex rhythms (something that could easily be realized today on my iBook). I don't think of Cowell as writing simplistic, "nice" music. Both were great, and even if one doesn't like either's music, they clearly made a significant contribution to modern music. Besides, Cowell was good enough for Ives, and Schoenberg recognized Ives' genius, so right there both are linked (and probably to Kevin Bacon as well).
Lost in all this debate seems to be the music of Berg. A great example of how the technique is less important than the music itself. Most people probably don't even realize that most of his music isn't even 12-tone (though most is serial, but then, so is Feldman and Stravinsky). If we're going to debate Schoenberg vs. Cowell, why not Young vs. Adams, or Babbitt vs Glass? It is a waste of time, much like the Schoenberg vs. Stravinsky debate we used to constantly have when I was in high school (I preferred Schoenberg, but do love a lot of Stravinsky as well, but who really cares?)
posted by David Toub
9:56 AM
Evil Empire
Since I was in high school I've been encountering people talking about the evil twelve-tone thing and it's awful hegemony. The clamor seems to get louder in direct proportion to the waning prestige and power of the twelve-toning set. I'm beginning to think lately that it involves people having some early traumatic experience, like toilet training.
Nobody has mentioned that for a long time during the 50's and into the 60's, twelve-tone, or at least non tonal composers were generally thought to be heterosexual, while the people (sissies?) who wrote tonal music (Copland, Thomson, Cowell, Bowles, Bernstein, Blitzstein, Rorem, Britten, Henze, Tippett, Poulenc) were gay. (Shostakovich wrote tonal music--maybe--but he was Russian, so didn't count) There's a story of Virgil meeting Ben Weber (famous down-town twelve-tone composer and gay man) and saying, "Which is it? Do you write twelve-tone music or are you queer? You can't be both." (or something like that.) I don't exactly remember when that dissappeared as an issue.
One question regarding Kyle Gann's recent posting, though:
Does anybody seriously think that Schoenberg is a less good composer than Henry Cowell? Or even equally good?
posted by Rodney Lister
9:21 AM
new topic
Disclaimer: this has nothing to do with serialism. Honest.
I'm curious about different people's experiences with how they notate. Specifically, do they still write by hand, or do they use a software package, and if so, what?
I used to write things out in pencil, then work laboriously to produce a final copy in ink on transparency paper, using an electric eraser to remove mistakes. Of course, this was the 70's and early 80's. I then just bagged that approach and wrote things out in pencil, using a xerox machine and getting the score bound. Fairly inexpensive, but still time-consuming. I even would spend some free time during my fellowship on my extracurricular activity of notating scores.
In the early 90's I got very interested in computers, particularly the use of software to notate music. At the time, the dominant application was Finale (Macintosh), and using version 3.2 I was able to get some fairly lengthy scores notated using my computer. It was legible, could easily be backed up, and changes could be made on the fly (which was much better than using an electric eraser and boring a hole though the manuscript). By version 3.5.2, Finale was a really elegant application. I even wrote a paper on it for a MIS class, extolling its virtues.
Subsequent versions of Finale have left many of us in the user community cold. It works, but much more slowly, and has become less elegant in my opinion. It still allows me to get the job done, and in some ways much faster than before. I'm currently using Finale 2005b, and the best feature IMHO is its ability to dump a notated score into MP3 format. Playback varies---I have a lot of playback kinks to iron out with one score before I can post an MP3 excerpt on my site---but it's pretty good. Not as good as real musicians, of course, but beats silence.
There are also a lot of composers who speak highly of Finale's competitor, Sibelius. This is kind of like the Mac vs PC argument, and ultimately goes nowhere, but there are fierce debates between both user communities as to which application is best. I should say that there are days when I would love to try something else, as sometimes Finale just doesn't behave itself, or else cannot do what I need it to do. But I've also heard much the same from Sibelius users on the Web, so I think each program has its pros and cons.
So to my question: how do you produce finished manuscripts: pencil or software?
posted by David Toub
9:05 AM
Bad Performances
Re the 12-tone thing, to paraphrase Cage: I have nothing to say, and I’m not saying it, and that is poetry.
To answer one of Judith’s questions from last Thursday: I agree with Beth’s reply from Friday: I have a hard time justifying the cancellation of a performance after hearing the dress rehearsal. I’ve heard bad dress rehearsals lead to good performances, and vice versa.
I suppose we would all have to count ourselves lucky to get as many bad performances as Beethoven has on a daily basis.
I had a performance a few years back by a New York ensemble, for which I wasn’t able to meet with the musicians before the dress rehearsal. When I arrived, I was stunned to discover that they were playing the piece exactly half as fast as the indicated tempo. Despite the slow speed, they were still playing a lot of wrong notes.
It was a potent lesson, for which there is an unassailable axiom: At half tempo, every wrong note lasts twice as long.
I didn’t cancel the performance, but I left the hall and spent the evening in a nearby bar.
But Judith, what are your answers to your questions?
posted by Lawrence Dillon
4:00 AM
Tuesday, March 22, 2005
defending arnold and friends
I feel kind of sorry for Schoenberg, in light of a lot of postings (largely outside of this blog) trashing his music. Everyone's entitled to his or her opinion, of course, and I personally agree in principle with much of what Kyle Gann has said on this issue. However, I felt compelled to respond, since I always thought Schoenberg was probably a pretty nice person, although I suspect he was a bit distant and hard to connect with. I also think he was probably somewhat down about a lot of the abuse he took both in Austria and this country. After all, he did write an essay titled "How One Becomes Lonely."
Kyle Gann's recent essay is worthwhile reading, and I support most of it. I just don't think 12-tone music was a hoax. I think it's important to look at the historical context. But most important, who cares about how it was written so long as one likes the music for the music's sake?
posted by David Toub
10:33 PM
Those Pesky Viennese
If you haven't had enough of the 12-tone battle yet, head over to Kyle Gann's blog for another round. (Don't forget to come back.)
posted by Jerry Bowles
8:45 PM
From Corey (new member)
Greetings. I'm new to the Composers Forum, so by way of introduction I'd like to invite you to visit my website at http://www.automaticheartbreak.com. I got my first exposure to 20th century concert music not in academia, but in a Sam Goody record store at the local mall in my hometown of McAllen, Texas. In 1994 at 16years old I bought a copy of Steve Reich's "Tehillim" and "Three Movements for Orchestra" because I was fascinated that a living composer would appear in the "classical music" section. Sam Goody is not known for having an extensive or eclectic selection, but for whatever reason this disk was there and I bought it.
posted by Corey Dargel
5:03 PM
Monday, March 21, 2005
Things I'd like to find
It only occurred to me to day that I could ask about these:
1) Anybody have any idea about the whereabouts of any extant pieces by Israel Citkowitz? Citkowitz, as people may or may not know, was a protege of Copland's. Only six of his pieces--all songs to poems from Chamber Music by Joyce--were published (by Cos Cob Press). The '54 Groves lists a bunch of other pieces: A String Quartet (which was played at the first Yaddo Festival), a Piano Sonata, songs on poems of Blake and Frost. I've been able to find two pieces which were in Nadia Boulanger's papers at Harvard. As far as his family knows he destroyed everything he could, having decided it wasn't good enough, which is too bad, since, although it's maybe uneven, some of the songs are really beautiful and interesting. Anyway, if anybody has any ideas....
2) A recording of Erwin Schulhoff's setting of the Communist Manifesto. I've only recently become aware of it. ("It has long seemed strange to me that nobody has yet made an oratorio out of the Communist Manifesto of 1848 by Max and Englels. It is a text of remarkable eloquence, and for many an article of faith proudly held."--Virgil Thomson, Music With Words). I'd love to hear it. I haven't actually tried to check with his publisher to see if they have a recording, but as far as I can tell there's not a commercial one. Anybody know?
Thanks
posted by Rodney Lister
10:15 PM
Two Clarifications
1. Rodney suggests that my Reich/Babbitt story is a musical urban legend. You'd think I would have learned to cite my sources up front, but apparently I have not. (And Rodney -- I appreciate your healthy skepticism.) According to Michael Gordon himself:
"It was really an audience, people who were attracted by the 12-hour concert and were going to go check this out. So they did not know if they liked Milton Babbitt, they were not supposed to like Steve Reich. And they did not know that if they liked Steve Reich, they were not supposed to like Milton Babbitt. And you know, Milton Babbitt came in and he talked, and his piece was played and there was this huge ovation. And then he walked out the back because he didn't want to hear Steve Reich's piece. [laughs] Steve Reich, who did not want to hear Milton's piece and had been waiting outside the building until it was over came in, and then he talked, and there was a huge ovation and then Steve left. And they didn't ever meet."
2. I never meant to equate "uptown" with "serialist." Yes, serialism as an ideology is pretty much dead (Which is not to say that nobody uses the techniques. My friend Stratis Minakakis writes gorgeous music and uses a lot of serialist technique.) My grandfather is dead too, but there's still a family resemblance. Two of my former teachers David Rakowski and Lee Hyla are both fairly uptown and also both fabulous (although they're both substantially more rock-n-roll than, say, Babbitt and Carter.) Based on what music I've heard of his, Rodney Lister is himself fairly uptown. And the list goes on and on. Now the probability that I will like any given uptown piece is lower than the probability that I'll like any given downtown piece, but that is purely a statement about my own taste.
So Rodney -- I'm with you on the observation that "serialism is bad" is a straw man, but my reason for wanting that straw man dismantled is, I think, different from yours. From my perspective (and I know I helped set the straw man up with my title choice earlier) arguing about serialism takes us away from being able to all agree that there still remains an uptown and downtown divide. The food-fight going on in the comments section proves, to my mind, that the divide exists, but at the moment it seems to be illustrating the downtown prejudice against the uptowners rather than vice versa. Is everybody having fun? :)
posted by Galen H. Brown
12:18 PM
Sunday, March 20, 2005
"it's the music, stupid"
Not that the economy isn't important either, but...
Here's my take on a lot of the recent comments and posts about compositional style, technique, academia vs downtown, etc.:
* There is a lot of good music that has been written using 12-tone techniques
* Unfortunately, most of it has been written by a bunch of dead people who lived most of their lives in Germany (and let's not forget the sadly neglected Dallapicolla, who lived in Italy)
* There is a lot of good music that has been written using minimalist, postmodern, and other techniques/styles
* There is also a lot of not-so-good music written in all the styles that have ever existed.
* Ultimately, while technique is intellectually interesting, and certainly keeps musicologists in business, any music probably won't be compelling to an individual listener based solely on the technique used to compose it. In other words, even if the music is well-constructed, solving some amazing compositional challenges and using all sorts of cool canonical and notational tricks, who cares unless one likes to listen to the music itself?
Consider painting. Yes, there are art students who are probably forced to study the underlying painting techniques and even individual brush strokes. But if the art is ugly and expressionless, it doesn't matter if the painting technique is first rate.
Same thing with music. A first-rate technique can't guarantee a great work of music. A bad technique doesn't necessarily mean that the music is inferior, either. I wonder if some of the reasons why new music is marginalized relates to all the musicological analyses done on serial music, which makes it seem akin to string theory.
posted by David Toub
8:58 PM
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